silverthunder | Random Thoughts...

You know, I've noticed that a lot of Daisuke yaoi fans hate Kari. I suppose it makes sense, considering he has a crush on her. And she's human enough to have flaws - most of which have been gleefully pointed out and picked apart.

I can't tell you how many Kari-haters point to the movie where she says that line about "making Davis jealous", with their eyes bugging out, and say 'See? SEE?'

So I think it's kind of amusing that in the original, it was Takeru who said "This should really make Daisuke jealous." Hikari didn't say anything of the sort.

Not very many people are likely to use that as fuel for their hatred of Takeru, though... After all, *Takeru* is a likable character. (I mean this seriously, too - I love Takeru)

Yaoi fans tend to have this hatred of females - especially females standing in the way of their yaoi. I'm not any less guilty of this than any others. I dislike a HELL of a lot of anime girls, and I'd be lying if I said that, for some of them, their interference with my yaoi had no part in that.

And hey, it's my right. I can dislike whatever characters I choose.

Kari is one of the few I like. Obviously, she's got flaws - she's a big hypocrite, for one. And she comes off as holier-than-thou a LOT of the time. But generally, she's not too bad. And if she had no flaws whatsoever... well... then she'd be a Mary-Sue type, wouldn't she?

But yaoi fandoms, for the most part, tend to be mostly made up of fangirls. And we're much harsher on anime females than we are on anime males. A bishounen needs to prove himself a jerk before we label him that. A bishoujo, on the other hand, has to prove herself *worthy* before we decide she's not on the black list.

It just doesn't seem fair, somehow...

I had a point in there somewhere in the middle of all that rambling, but I don't remember what it was... If anyone else has a clue, want to let me in on it?

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Good point about fangirls letting male characters get away with a lot more than female ones. I've seen some characters get away with behavior that female characters have been demonized for -- but people say that on the male characters, the same behavior is "cute."

There's a lot of that in real life, too. Like, guys can sleep with a lot of girls and be studs. Girls sleep with a lot of guys, and they're sluts.

It works both ways, though, too. Girls can cry - because they're girls. If guys cry, they get razzed on. Then again... that's because they're acting like girls...

Sometimes I wonder... Is sleeping with a lot of people so bad for girls because it means they're acting like guys?

Hah! Yeah... sure...

It's always easier to have a villain, especially when that particular female gets in the way of your favorite yaoi pairing. Hence Evil Relena will always exist to come between Heero and Duo, Rinoa will inexplicably go superbitch to keep her Squall away from Zell, and Aeris will plot and conspire to keep Cloud and Sephiroth from finally expressing their pure love for each other.

As a general rule I despise character bastardization. It's fine to dislike a character, but perverting them into a twisted visage of themselve (recognizable only because they happen to share the same name and looks) just to fulfull the need for a villain bothers the hell out of me. I return to my classic fiction-reading mantra: "Don't just TELL me why it's the way you've explained - SHOW me why."

But then, I demand a frustrating amount of logic out of the things I read. The scientist in me still has a hard time with suspension of disbelief.

Getting back to the topic at hand (now that I've rambled)... personally, I think at least some of the female bashing results differences in Japanese societial norms, compared to western norms. I personally will admit that the meek, submissive female archetype prevalent in anime tends to bother the hell out of me, even though it seems (from what I've learned of Japanese culture) to be a common view of women in Japanese society. But yet it's the polite, friendly characters (Quatre, Omi, Tokyo Babylon Subaru) that inevitably end up becoming my favorites - and those same characters are frequently referred to as weak and submissive by their detractors. Do I like them better because they're bishounen? Is it because of the difference in the gender roles? Or something else entirely?

Personally, I *like* Relena. I hated Ouka until around episode 11, but after that I changed my mind. I really like the ladies in Trigun. And god forbid, I even like Miaka. By yaoi fandom standards, I make a piss-poor fangirl.

Oh well. ^_^ Hopefully something in there made sense...

Actually, I like a lot of female characters, too. (I do dislike Relena and Ouka, though) The female characters I tend to like are usually upbeat, unapologetic types who don't let people push them around. There are exceptions, but... well... that's usually the type I like. The more independent, the better!

And then with guys, it's the opposite. I generally like the self-effacing, polite, shy, or quiet types. Especially if they're smart and/or love computers. There are exceptions to this as well, but that type of bishounen is my favorite, really. Smart, sweet, and reserved - I love them.

So, see? You're not alone. ^_^ Anyway, I don't know what it is that makes me like someone as a character or not. It's just... I like them or I don't. Or they grow on me. Sometimes that happens.

You already summed it up pretty well. Only thing I can say, I agree, I'm keeping this in mind, and I think I've found yet another person who dislikes chara-bashing/bastardization. ^_^

Ja ne!
Billie

I think men can get away with more things in the anime world because they're looks tend to make up for it. You think twice before labeling them as jerks, is my guess. Because you might have an attraction to them in looks so you won't label them right away, whereas a female they have nothing to make you think twice about it.

I think it's so stupid that society still keeps this "boy-will-be-boys" attitude. It's a bunch of crap, it's just plain an excuse for certain behaviors. But I'm not excusing women though either...

Back on topic though I know I usually have a dislike for girls who try to take a guy I like or "break up" my yaoi couple. But I tend to get mad a men who try to break up my favorite yaoi couple too. If any character tries to jeopardize my couple/man I get pissed off at them. Females are just the ones who usually do that the most. Females are always more of a threat due to the fact that most of these shows have hetro couples.

I think that we like the cutie/sweet men characters because it's so out of the norm. Men are "supposed" to be big and macho. I love the sweet male characters. I know if I were to have a boyfriend I would really want him to be like that. ^^

--Chrysoprase

Oh, I love sweet/cute male characters. ^_^ They are so the best! And I agree with you about most of that. It makes sense... and it's not really fair. Guys will get away with so much more than girls can.

I hardly ever get annoyed with guys for breaking up my yaoi couple. Like, I'm a Ken/Omi fan, but even though most people pair Ken with Aya, I still adore Aya. Same with on Digmon - I love Ken/Daisuke, but even though there are plenty of Takeru/Daisuke fans and evidence for the couple, I still think Takeru is awesome.

When it comes to guys, I hardly ever dislike the *character* who might break up a pairing I like. I usually dislike the pairing. ^^;; With girls, though, somehow it's easier to dislike them.

But I guess your reasoning makes sense about that. Since I'm not attracted to them, it's easier to dislike them.

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