silverthunder | (no subject)

Yesterday was fun. I went to both my bellydance practice and the anime club meeting. Anyone remember Samarai Pizza Cats? We watched that. It was funny.

And the next meeting is a manga discussion meeting. I'm looking forward to it.

Also, last night V and I went out for dinner and then to Chapters - then just sat around chilling at our old elementary school. That just seems to be the place to go when we're out of ideas.

Next week we'll be going to see Van Hellsing. I can't wait.

We did have a discussion about the arguments people use in their anti-slash crusades... Some of them are pretty bad. I chose a few of the bad ones to write up here, just 'cause I felt like it. So, here:

1. "All slash fans are horny teenage girls". This is not an argument, nor is it a reason that slash is bad. It's not even attacking slash at all; it's attacking slash *fans*. Not only does it not help your cause, it makes you look stupid. Way to go.

2. "Most slash fanfics are bad". Most *het* fanfics are bad. In general, the majority of fanfics are bad. No matter what your preference, you have to weed through crap in order to find quality. Of course, if you're not actively looking for good slash, you're not likely to find it. This is why het fans seem to have trouble seeing it. It is not because it doesn't exist.

3. "I don't mind slash, but not when they go making PERFECTLY STRAIGHT characters gay". This is quite possibly the worst anti-slash statement ever, and it's disguised as pro-slash! I cannot STAND these people. So, it's okay to write slash, but only with certain characters? The intolerant have learned to fake tolerance! And just who decides which characters can "acceptably" be slashed? You? Please.

4. "You should have at least one het couple". Not really anti-slash, but it still bugs me. Am I going to tell het fans they need at least one slash couple? No. So do me a favor and return the courtesy.

That was fun. Anyone have more?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

heh, yeah, those are so pretty lame excuses XD I don't know why het slash fans and yaoi/yuri slash fans just can't get along.

I think everyone has seen Samurai Pizza Cats but me..

5. "*insert names of two people here, ex. Heero and Relena* BELONG together!!!"

Yeah. Right. [/ sarcasm]

Hehe... that's right! And it's not a good argument either. :D

V and I were commenting on the Digimon fandom... We thought it would be really funny if someone made all the characters straight EXCEPT for Takeru and Hikari. And, of course, even though the others are all straight, they're dating people outside the group.

It'd just be fun to see people's reactions.

That is... so... so... incredibly tempting.

*ponders how that might work*

How about if we say slash fan's bug us? Because. well... I have this thing with sexual orientations having 'fans'. It's like saying 'I'm an African American fan!' or some other such thing, and it so puts me off.

You mean the term 'slash fan' bugs you?

Well... that's a new one, if nothing else. ;) I'm not really saying 'I'm a fan of gay people', though - I'm saying 'I'm a fan of stories where two characters of the same gender are together romantically'.

I don't think it's quite the same thing.

Personally, it sounds the same to me. Perhaps it's just irritating me because I read slash before it really got popular online or the fact that I am gay.
Or it could be I've heard the 'I like so and so together 'cuz their pretty!' excuse the fan girls use.

You know...the sad point about 3 and 4 is that I can argue both sides. ^_^; Shoulda been a debater. The thing is...when I was on the "het" side of the argument at the tender age of fifteen, I started to get my hands on things that made me go "Hmmm..." Gundam Wing. Anything CLAMP. Fushigi Yuugi. I *saw* things that made me stop and think "You know, I should be rooting for the girl, as I'm a girl myself, and I like the main character male, but there's that other guy...and they do things...say things...and I wonder..."

Yeah, so that was my introduction into slash/yaoi. And I probably look for those things now; an ex-roomie of mine who was a rabid anime fan as well started accusing me of that. However, there are some cases where I can argue the het...say, Ruki/Ryo, or Takeru/Hikari--and there are places were I just can't *see* it. Gundam Wing is a big peeve of mine; I <3 the series because it's fucking cool (politics whore/graphics whore here ^_^) but I can't see Heero and Relena actually ending up together as a couple and happy. I can almost see Duo and Hilde...but at the same time, with Heero in the equation, I can't see Duo simply sitting back and settling down when there's excitement to be had and a head to be explored.

Personal preference? Maybe. I mean, I *hated* Relena when I first got my claws on GW. However, now that I've got the DVDs and the manga, I actually like her. I can see where Heero wants to protect her and keep her safe...sane. And because of that, I feel I can argue well enough in writing (rant or fic) why it won't work between them as "lovers."

I think a good author can write nearly *any* pairing and make it possible. As you pointed out in a reply, we "slash" writers get grouped together as a bunch being "Pro-slash." Sure, I suppose I could say that I support "slash" in a general sense, but as far as series and fanfics are concerned, I can only support the idea of two characters together if I feel I have the "know" on them. Two series that have a not-quite-but-almost-there het pairing at the end (s-CRY-ed and Samurai Deeper Kyo) are amazing stories, and I can *see* the pairing...but I also see beyond that.

Maybe I'm just twisted. I mean, I think that Kenshin and Saitou are a *beyond* possible pairing in Rurouni Kenshin. When a character has so much drive to push themselves, to succeed, to keep going and doing what they want and love, it's hard to see them settling for the American Dream, yanno?

Dude. O.o Sorry about the length; I haven't slept in two days...three days? Damn. ^^; I raaaambled. ::smooch:: But I loff you, and I loff this argument, and some day I'll find my essay and post it. ::nods:: ::dies::

It's not that I'm saying people shouldn't support het pairings. It's a completely different thing for you to support a non-slash pairing and for you to tell me that I *can't* like a character in a slash pairing because it's just somehow wrong.

I don't think anyone has a right to dictate what a given person can like or dislike. These people say it's okay to like slash, and then they turn around and say it's *not* okay to like slash when it comes to certain characters. That's completely different from someone who likes a het pairing and states their preference. As soon as you start telling people what they should and shouldn't like, you're crossing that boundary.

Everyone has a right to what they like. And if I were to decide that Ruki and Juri made a better couple that Ruki and Ryo, is it right if someone tells me that I'm brainless because I'm making "perfectly straight" characters gay? Maybe they think that the characters are perfectly straight, but that's their opinion, not mine. I'm not telling them that they're brainless for making "perfectly gay" characters straight, am I?

The same applies to question four. If I want to make all of the characters gay (or just single), I can. Why should someone have a right to tell me what I should and shouldn't do? There are people who somehow think that liking at least one het pairing puts them a few notches above the people who don't, so they can put on this superior attitude and blabber on about "brainless yaoi fangirls" who refuse to have their token het pairings.

It's incredibly stupid. Just because someone likes a different pairing than me, it does not make them better than me!

And see? :D I can babble for just as long.

"... because duh, it's shounen anime. It wouldn't happen anyway!"

... or something of that manner. The site is down, and blogger ate my archives so that I can't find the entry where I whined about it. Okay, so I can understand part of it as she seemed to be harping about canon couplings anyway, but Jesus, that's just... a really, really pathetic excuse as to why she didn't consider slash pairings. Particularly when she was pairing Jun up with just about half the male cast if I remember it correctly.

But you are so right about this. People who simply doesn't like same sex couples for whatever reason are really fine by me. But I get seriously annoyed when they start making excuses for it.
As for #4... well, there only thing more stupid looking than fanfics where all the characters are gay except for ONE couple would have to be the fanfics where all the boys are paired up with each other, but all the girls are straight and paired up with various OCs nobody could have cared less about.

Hehe... That's kind of funny, because shounen anime tend to have more hints for yaoi (probably unintentional, but they're there) than shoujo anime. ^^ Unless the shoujo anime is shounen-ai in nature, that is.

I don't care if people don't like yaoi. Just *say* it, though. "I don't like yaoi." Don't try to justify it! >_< And especially don't try to attack *my* preference!

As for the last... *grin* While I've written all-yaoi fanfics before... If I'm making *all* of the male characters gay, I'll usually make the female characters gay as well. I know I'm guilty of making the females straight more often than not, but I don't recall having ever paired one of them off with an OC rather than with each other.

I don't like pairing OCs with canon characters. Whether they're female or not.

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::nikoniko::

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